'It's like learning everything all over again'

Countless readings, all-night study sessions and heated team meetings make up every MBA experience. So too is the concept of return on investment, or ROI, a term dropped by B-school professors no matter what the discipline.

Understanding the importance of ROI doesn't start on day No. 1 of an MBA program. It should be part of every prospective student's criteria when deciding whether to obtain an MBA and where to study. It's about ensuring that those up-front tuition payments will pay sufficient dividends down the road.

Richard Bloom, a former Globe and Mail reporter who is in the final weeks of his MBA at York University's Schulich School of Business in Toronto, sat down over lattes with three soon-to-graduate peers from Schulich; the University of Toronto's Joseph L. Rotman School of Management; and the University of Western Ontario's Richard Ivey School of Business in London, Ont., to chat about the ups-and-downs of their MBA education. As he discovered, ROI is about more than just that post-MBA salary.

Richard Bloom, Schulich: Now that graduation is just a few weeks away, was the MBA program what you expected?

Kevin Wright, Ivey: Initially, it was a lot more work than I had expected. There are time constraints and the logistical nightmares about group work. As much as I liked the idea of the case-based method [of instruction], I was concerned about how much I was going to learn. But now, looking back over the past 16 months, I really feel like I've absorbed a lot of information and built a lot of knowledge. I've loved it.

Anson Kendall, Schulich: When you do your undergrad, it's more structured: midterm, final. And this was more case-based, more group work, and I was never really exposed to much group work prior to this. So that was a shock. As was managing different people and different ideas of what's right and what's wrong. In terms of what I've gotten out of the program, I'm more business savvy. My acumen has definitely increased.

Sabrina Machel, Rotman: It's one of those things where the school exceeded my expectations but the MBA itself surprised me. I didn't expect the amount of work. Coming out of a [bachelor of commerce program], I had thought: "This shouldn't be too bad compared with someone who is coming from an engineering background." Lo and behold, you look at it from a completely different perspective in an MBA compared with a B. Comm.

It's like learning everything all over again. So I had just as much of a struggle as everyone else. The best part of it is, you learn a lot from your profs but you learn so much more from your peers. You learn from people who have consulting backgrounds, finance backgrounds, people who are traders, [investment] bankers.

Bloom: Explain how you had to learn things all over again.

Machel: It's from a different perspective. Looking at accounting, you're not looking at the nitty-gritty stuff that you do in a B. Comm. Now, you're looking at it from a top-manager's perspective and saying "Here's how I can pull everything together," instead of "This is how I do this kind of sheet." How to really interpret, is what you learn in the MBA.

Bloom: Work-life balance is important no matter what you do. Can you talk about the impact doing an MBA has had on your life outside of school?

Machel: For me, it's all about priority. I know this is bad to say as an MBA, but I still place a lot of my personal stuff ahead of my MBA. I'm training for a triathlon right now, and that's a priority for me. You have to show everyone that it's not just about school.

Kendall: In first year, I was definitely studious and my personal life did suffer. What I did, was take summer school courses in addition to my summer internship. What that did was leave me more time in second year. Now I have more time to devote to my social life, which I think was a great move.

Wright: In London, there isn't really a difference between school life and personal life. Because we're all in such a confined space, you're either in doing school work or you're out with people you were doing school work with. I wouldn't say there was balance because I didn't sleep much in my first year, but I learned that you find time for what you want to do -- and there is an incredible amount of time in a day -- like play hockey at 11 p.m. then go back and do a couple more cases. I've learned how to pack a lot more in.

Bloom: That's a perfect segue. How many all-nighters have you pulled?

Wright: I'm routinely up until 2 a.m. Less so this year, but in first year, Sunday to Tuesday I was sleeping four, maybe 4½ hours per night.

Kendall: I've been up really late working and e-mailing, but in terms of hard-core all-nighters: two or three.

Machel: First year, I did a bunch of case competitions and for those you're up all night long. But for real class stuff, I am never up past 2 a.m.

Bloom: Teamwork is such a huge component of the MBA. Reflecting on the group assignments, what have been your experiences?

Machel: In your first year, you're placed on a team for the entire year. Some teams are fantastic. Other teams, there are negative contributors where they detract from everything. In second year, you get to choose your groups, and you can form one of the strongest teams out there because people are coming from different backgrounds, like engineering and marketing.

Wright: Learning how to work with that diversity is key. In first year you don't get to pick your teams and in a lot of jobs we don't pick our teams. But later on [in the program] you do get to pick your team and as we go through our careers I think that mirrors what we're going to be doing. Down the road, we'll be able to pick a team according to what we work well with and what our strengths are.

Bloom: What has been your favourite moment of the MBA so far?

Kendall: Finishing my finance exam. I'm not a finance person and after that exam I felt relieved.

Wright: Coming back after the Christmas break in first year not having any real gauge of how I was doing in the program and getting that first transcript -- and seeing that I made it on the dean's list.

Machel: Running for the [student government] and having to speak in front of the entire school dressed in full hockey gear, carrying a volleyball, a tennis racket and other sports [gear], from head to toe -- and feeling really comfortable doing that in front of everyone.

Bloom: What kind of debt can somebody expect to come out of an MBA program with?

Wright: I would say $50,000 to $100,000, depending on the level of your scholarships and the level of your tuition.

Bloom: Those numbers scare a lot of people off. What's your advice to someone who might not want to go that deep into debt?

Machel: Each school has its own special financial program. For example, [Rotman students] have a Scotiabank loan which is interest-free while you're in school and for the first year after. That is a huge thing. Aside from that: scholarships, scholarships, scholarships.

Kendall: There are strategies you can use to mitigate some of that debt. What I was able to do was consolidate my debt into my mortgage and make mortgage payments which would be at a lower interest rate than a student loan.

Wright: Look at what you expect to get out of it, long-term. Yes, it's a lot of money up front but I think the benefits are going to outweigh that up-front cost. Maybe not far down the road.

Bloom: What's your advice to someone considering doing an MBA right now?

Wright: Expect to push yourself, expect to do things you're not comfortable with and look very carefully at the schools you're [considering] going to. There are great schools all across the country and all of them have elements that will fit with what you want to get out of it. Be a critical consumer because there are a lot of choices -- and it is a lot of debt to take on.

Kendall: You're going to get out of it what you put into it. And I recommend studying full time versus part-time because you get more out of it. You get more of the student interaction and the camaraderie.

Machel: Make sure you take time to consider carefully what you plan to do afterward. If you're planning on making a slight movement in your career, you should ask if you really need to do an MBA or are you fine on the track you're on right now. Also, you're going to be put in uncomfortable situations once in a while, so manage your expectations. Bloom: What's next?

Wright: Definitely a little time off and finding that finance career that works for me. Networking like crazy to find where I'm going to land.

Kendall: Short-term: marketing or in the public sector. Five years out, definitely something entrepreneurial.

Machel: Vacation! And then, I'll be working for GlaxoSmithKline, where it looks like I'll have the next five years planned out for me.

Bloom: Fill in the blank: I couldn't have done my MBA without . . .

Machel: My friends.

Kendall: My friends.

Wright: I'm tempted to say my bank loan, but I'll say support from faculty and friends.